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blitzar 1 hours ago [-]
You mean they didn't save 25 trillion dollars a year from the 7 trillion annual spend?
I cant believe they would lie about this ... i am sure that this is a totally isolated case and they have been straight forward and honest about everything else.
The DOGE refund cheque is due to arrive any day now.
bix6 55 minutes ago [-]
And all you techno futurist republicans voted for this. And you’ll do it again cuz money or whatever.
classified 22 minutes ago [-]
But now they have "startup experience" and can fuck up even worse the next time.
xgulfie 52 minutes ago [-]
The right's platform has devolved into, essentially, "whatever owns the libs"
saalweachter 44 minutes ago [-]
Eh, I'm not going to dispute the validity of Cleek's Law, but ~everything Trump, et al, are doing has been an extremely popular idea with different segments of the right for thirty, forty years.
That goes for DOGE, both the idea of "drowning the government in a bathtub" and the specific cuts they made (eg, wrecking foreign aid), that goes for ICE, even the Iran War, which is widely regarded as the unpopular thing that might actually sink the administration, is something a solid 30% of the base has been salivating over since Reagan and are only upset that he hasn't "finished the job" yet.
If you think it's all purely reactionary you haven't been paying attention for the last 40 years.
dgellow 38 minutes ago [-]
What you describe is the definition of reactionary
The amount of damage inflicted by this admin will take over a generation to assess, if circumstances are stable enough to do so.
e2le 1 hours ago [-]
Unfortunately Americans remain too comfortable to bother with any serious push back. The destruction of democratic traditions in America will continue and the president will keep using the office to legitimise his scams.
dgellow 42 minutes ago [-]
Even worse, way too many people are still actively supporting this. That can even been seen in the HN commenting crowd
classified 15 minutes ago [-]
> the HN commenting crowd
That set also contains elements who will swear that LLMs are conscious, so it does not mean as much as we might want it to.
nutjob2 1 hours ago [-]
I think you'll eventually find that the United States has lost much of its credibility and goodwill forever.
amiga386 51 minutes ago [-]
Post WW2, the US set up some fantastic levers of power that let it establish and maintain its hegemony at arms length: the United Nations and the UNSC. NATO. The petrodollar. Pax Americana could've gone on forever.
However, those levers of power are subtle enough that once the US voted ignorant jackasses into power, they wrongly thought that's just how the world is, they can do what they like, including -- critically! -- dismantling the levers of power.
It's like that image of the idiot sawing off the branch he's sitting on. How else can you explain the US trying to fuck up the UN and NATO?
jermaustin1 48 minutes ago [-]
> Pax Americana could've gone on forever.
Hubris is the undoing of all empires. And hubris is basically entropy for humanity.
skinfaxi 37 minutes ago [-]
> How else can you explain the US trying to fuck up the UN and NATO?
At least cynically, there is nothing ignorant about it, it is intentional undermining probably for personal gain.
john_strinlai 1 hours ago [-]
for awhile, sure. but we can look at japan, germany, etc. and recognize that it wont be "forever".
edit: woops, i guess everyone apparently still hates japan and germany and will hate them forever, too. does everyone still hate spain?
clark_dent 1 hours ago [-]
A good proportion of the older generations still disdain or mock Germany as nazis-in-waiting. There may be an end to the damage done to their global reputation, but it's not here yet 80 years down the line.
SideburnsOfDoom 53 minutes ago [-]
> There may be an end to the damage done to their global reputation, but it's not here yet 80 years down
Let's not forget that in the early part of the 20th century, Germany was the powerhouse of mathematics and sciences such as physics and chemistry, to the extent that top scientists basically had to learn German (1) and/or study in Germany (2).
How long did it take Germany to recover that preeminent position?
> to the extent that top scientists basically had to learn German
That reverberates even toady -- I had a physics professor who who learned German precisely because he wanted to read some original texts written by Boltzmann. Apparently he thought he was missing some nuance in the translations.
ceejayoz 1 hours ago [-]
I'd really prefer not to learn the "don't put evil assholes in power" lesson the way Japan and Germany did.
They're basically brand-new countries.
john_strinlai 1 hours ago [-]
i hope that it is obvious i am not saying that...
my point was that a couple generations is usually enough to heal most animosity, assuming the offending events cease
certainly in a thousand years, ~no one will remember.
ceejayoz 1 hours ago [-]
A couple generations plus a flattening of most major cities, and the deaths/imprisonment of the leadership responsible.
bcrosby95 40 minutes ago [-]
The second half never happened to Japans leaders despite being responsible for many atrocities in the region at the time.
i dont think flattening of most major cities is a requirement...
ceejayoz 59 minutes ago [-]
> i dont think flattening of most major cities is a requirement...
Both of your chosen examples went through exactly that as part of their reputational change.
john_strinlai 56 minutes ago [-]
i can go dig up other examples of countries that did bad things which are forgiven now, if you'd like.
ceejayoz 56 minutes ago [-]
Like the Confederacy?
Wait, bad example.
john_strinlai 54 minutes ago [-]
just wondering, do you want the US to be hated "forever"? or what is it that you are arguing for?
i thought it was a fairly obvious statement that over the thousands of years of history, many bad things have been done, but after several generations, we are able to heal.
if you think that in the year 2200, the world will still hate the US because of today, i disagree.
the year 2500? i doubt the people of that time, excepting a few ancient historians, will even know it happened.
"forever" is a long time.
ceejayoz 53 minutes ago [-]
> do you want the US to be hated "forever"?
No.
What I want and what I get don't always match up.
The US will suffer from this era on the international stage for generations, in a completely self-inflicted blow. Its continued existence as the present-day USA is by no means guaranteed, either.
Present-day Germany isn't Nazi Germany; I certainly hope people will hate Nazi Germany forever.
34 minutes ago [-]
krapp 22 minutes ago [-]
Japan and Germany made it illegal to put the evil assholes in power. The US will do no such thing, we're going to keep voting for the evil assholes and every attempt we make at progress will simply be undermined and undone.
I don't see a way out of this without a fundamental transformation of the US. At the very least that looks like a Constitutional convention, repeal of FPTP and the electoral college, maybe even changing to a parliamentary system without a powerful executive. At worst it looks like civil war. Nothing on a lesser scale than than that is going to suffice. Expecting to simply return to normal with a vote for blue and pretend this never happened isn't going to work.
fabian2k 1 hours ago [-]
I certainly hope that the US finds a less destructive way of changing their reputation than Germany did.
LoganDark 1 hours ago [-]
the hit to practically all of its spy programs will set it back years
dgellow 41 minutes ago [-]
Easily a decade
ransom1538 1 hours ago [-]
[flagged]
halJordan 58 minutes ago [-]
You mean doge increased HUD personnel/ funding? Or did they cut that too?
Please provide a source.
Also, are you also so sneering about the famine relief and AIDS treatment work that USAID was doing?
chevman 1 hours ago [-]
They'll just extend the forecast horizon when questioned:
"Oh, those projections were over the life the expected costs,forecast out 10/15/20 years into the future. Everyone knows this is how you calculate such savings..."
akagusu 10 minutes ago [-]
DOGE was never about saving money, it was about cutting aid to the poor.
mingus88 1 hours ago [-]
Oh, it saved money for someone all right
hn4yci687u 56 minutes ago [-]
Great context, thanks for adding it
TimorousBestie 60 minutes ago [-]
I won’t be surprised when the GAO’s budget is cut next as retaliation for this embarrassing report.
The goal wasn't to save money, but to destroy the administrative capacity of the government. And to eliminate programs Musk, Trump and their cronies disliked, while circumventing the legal procedures.
Of course it didn't save any money, and it was obvious from the start that the numbers they put out were entirely fictional.
actionfromafar 48 minutes ago [-]
It probably saved money for some very special companies.
48 minutes ago [-]
lorreyfum 58 minutes ago [-]
No problem just find more. It’s pretty easy.
ryanmcbride 41 minutes ago [-]
WOW YOU DONT FUCKING SAY?????????
1 hours ago [-]
metalliqaz 59 minutes ago [-]
Its purpose was not to save money but to disable government regulation of capital.
dgellow 40 minutes ago [-]
Specifically on Musk, that directly benefited his companies
classified 35 minutes ago [-]
If there's a government watchdog left, then Trump, Musk, DOGE, etc... haven't done their jobs. They are all too incompetent to even do a proper work of destruction. Or did someone fail to bribe them right?
micromacrofoot 1 hours ago [-]
people were saying this literally as the cuts were happening, we need to get over the delusion of powerful men knowing something the general population doesn't
ransom1538 48 minutes ago [-]
Last night a jam was canceled in Brazil: "bee-conservation musical". People say it's a waste of US tax payer funds (USAID), but they don't understand the real cost. 600 people are now suffering from PTSD and attending survivor therapy after being deprived of the bee-conservation musical. Our homeless can wait, the "bee-conservation musical" must go on.
I cant believe they would lie about this ... i am sure that this is a totally isolated case and they have been straight forward and honest about everything else.
The DOGE refund cheque is due to arrive any day now.
That goes for DOGE, both the idea of "drowning the government in a bathtub" and the specific cuts they made (eg, wrecking foreign aid), that goes for ICE, even the Iran War, which is widely regarded as the unpopular thing that might actually sink the administration, is something a solid 30% of the base has been salivating over since Reagan and are only upset that he hasn't "finished the job" yet.
If you think it's all purely reactionary you haven't been paying attention for the last 40 years.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reactionary
That set also contains elements who will swear that LLMs are conscious, so it does not mean as much as we might want it to.
However, those levers of power are subtle enough that once the US voted ignorant jackasses into power, they wrongly thought that's just how the world is, they can do what they like, including -- critically! -- dismantling the levers of power.
It's like that image of the idiot sawing off the branch he's sitting on. How else can you explain the US trying to fuck up the UN and NATO?
Hubris is the undoing of all empires. And hubris is basically entropy for humanity.
At least cynically, there is nothing ignorant about it, it is intentional undermining probably for personal gain.
edit: woops, i guess everyone apparently still hates japan and germany and will hate them forever, too. does everyone still hate spain?
Let's not forget that in the early part of the 20th century, Germany was the powerhouse of mathematics and sciences such as physics and chemistry, to the extent that top scientists basically had to learn German (1) and/or study in Germany (2).
How long did it take Germany to recover that preeminent position?
Its a trick question: they did not recover it.
1) https://hsm.stackexchange.com/questions/162/how-did-german-b...
2) e.g.
> In 1926, Oppenheimer left Cambridge for the University of Göttingen to study under Max Born; Göttingen was one of the world's leading centers for theoretical physics. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/J._Robert_Oppenheimer#Early_ca...
That reverberates even toady -- I had a physics professor who who learned German precisely because he wanted to read some original texts written by Boltzmann. Apparently he thought he was missing some nuance in the translations.
They're basically brand-new countries.
my point was that a couple generations is usually enough to heal most animosity, assuming the offending events cease
certainly in a thousand years, ~no one will remember.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Military_Tribuna...
i dont think flattening of most major cities is a requirement...
Both of your chosen examples went through exactly that as part of their reputational change.
Wait, bad example.
i thought it was a fairly obvious statement that over the thousands of years of history, many bad things have been done, but after several generations, we are able to heal.
if you think that in the year 2200, the world will still hate the US because of today, i disagree.
the year 2500? i doubt the people of that time, excepting a few ancient historians, will even know it happened.
"forever" is a long time.
No.
What I want and what I get don't always match up.
The US will suffer from this era on the international stage for generations, in a completely self-inflicted blow. Its continued existence as the present-day USA is by no means guaranteed, either.
Present-day Germany isn't Nazi Germany; I certainly hope people will hate Nazi Germany forever.
I don't see a way out of this without a fundamental transformation of the US. At the very least that looks like a Constitutional convention, repeal of FPTP and the electoral college, maybe even changing to a parliamentary system without a powerful executive. At worst it looks like civil war. Nothing on a lesser scale than than that is going to suffice. Expecting to simply return to normal with a vote for blue and pretend this never happened isn't going to work.
https://www.cbpp.org/blog/doge-driven-hud-cuts-will-make-it-...
"Oh, those projections were over the life the expected costs,forecast out 10/15/20 years into the future. Everyone knows this is how you calculate such savings..."
Of course it didn't save any money, and it was obvious from the start that the numbers they put out were entirely fictional.
(Europeans: this is sarcasm)